Stamitalks Podcast
We at Stamicarbon are pioneers in the licensing and design of fertilizer technology with more than 77 years of experience.
Here we share the latest technology insights into urea, green ammonia, fertilizer sustainability, and digital trends for fertilizer plants, and we also discuss the role the fertilizer industry can play in solving global challenges.
Happy to share our knowledge with you.
Stamitalks Podcast
Stamicarbon Equipment for non-Stamicarbon plants
Curious about how Stamicarbon can extend the life of your plant?
In the latest episode of #Stamitalks, Didier Croimans, a Senior Mechanical Engineer at Stamicarbon, explains how Stamicarbon offers its services and equipment to non-Stamicarbon plants.
Gain insights into the services and expertise #stamicarbon can provide, and how we offer full life cycle support.
All right, welcome everybody to a new episode of Stammy Talks. Today, not just today we're always talking about fertilizer technology, and today we're going to talk about Stammy Carbon equipment in non-Stammy Carbon plants. It's a big mouthful, but to guide us through this topic we have our senior mechanical engineer, dj Kroymans. Welcome, dj. Thank you, how are you doing? Fine?
Speaker 2:always. Thank you, Mark.
Speaker 1:Okay, well so, DJ, you joined Stamicarbon in 2018.
Speaker 2:Yeah correct.
Speaker 1:What did you do before you became a senior mechanical engineer at Stamik Arbonne?
Speaker 2:yes, so I joined Stamik Arbonne in 2018. Before that, I worked for many years in a pressure vessel equipment manufacturer, basically doing the design of these vessels, discussing with clients about your specifications, finding out what they needed and transferring that into finding out what they needed and transferring that into actual design drawings. Okay, and in?
Speaker 1:terms of your activity now in Stamina Carbon, just for normal Stamina Carbon equipment you are mostly involved as senior mechanical engineer in designing vessels.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so right now I work in the services department, the advanced department as we call it. I'm doing the mechanical projects of the equipment replacements and in those projects I uh, I'm basically the link between the client, the actual manufacturer, the process engineer within stomach carbon.
Speaker 1:So I built the specifications for the vessel, the data sheets, and then I follow up on the project when it's in production okay, so then you are indeed the right person to talk to, because then you're involved in many different parts of the process and acting as linking pin between them.
Speaker 2:Correct.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. So then that's of course, all for stymie carbon equipment in stymie carbon plants, but then today's topic is about stymie carbon equipment in non-stymie carbon plants. So maybe to start off, why would you do that? What's the difference.
Speaker 2:Well, working in stymie carbon plants is, of course, the easiest because we got everything worked out, we got standard data sheets available, we have the whole process figured out, so it's a little bit more the standard way of working. It actually gets interesting when you work into non-stammy carbon plants because then you, you don't have that whole design philosophy available, that whole background. So you actually have to talk a lot more with the clients. What do they want? Figure out what their restrictions are. There's often a visit to the site figure out what their restrictions are. There's often a visit to the site involved to see space available. Because, again, with the stomach carbon plant, we got all the information in our databases and and I can just look in our system and find almost everything I need in those situations.
Speaker 1:It's much more interactive and much more challenging okay, and what do you mean exactly with design philosophy?
Speaker 2:um well, we have a very strict set of design rules for equipment and when we follow that, we know exactly that the output will work. When you work with a competitor plant, you often have to look at the drawings, have an interaction with our own process engineers to figure out why is this here, why is this there? What can I modify? What does need to stay the same, both from a process and from a mechanical perspective?
Speaker 1:Okay and you say I want to modify, or maybe can I modify, certain elements. Why would you want to do it? Why not just go for a one-on-one replacement?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd say when you replace a vessel, it's had quite the life and it's also had a long operational experience. So people, uh people know what they liked about the vessel. They also know what they didn't like about the vessel. So, like things that break down, okay, things that need repairs uh, corrosion problems in an unexpected spot, the plant probably works at a much higher capacity than it worked when it was originally built. You see that in all plants.
Speaker 1:And then making simple models, because the metheo gets thinner during its lifetime. Is that the reason why the capacity increases, or does it have other causes?
Speaker 2:It can have multiple causes. A typical example you give, indeed, is when a heat exchanger, contradictionally, it's not what you'd expect, but it starts performing better the more it corrodes, because you get a much more efficient heat transfer. And then when you replace a heat exchanger in a plant, you have to take into account that if you replace it with the original one, the plant capacity might go down and I'm pretty sure no plant manager would love that. So those things you have to take into consideration for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, so then why is to basically improve the plant? But then still you could go to the original licensor and say can you give me new, whatever type of equipment you want to replace?
Speaker 2:You could definitely do that. I think there are a few reasons why sometimes we are or often we are contacted. It could be that the original licensor is no longer available, and it's also something that I often hear when talking to clients that we are quite unique in the fact that we try to offer that total lifecycle support. So the presence of the Stamik Carbon Advanced team, I think, really is a help to clients that were always available for small and large questions.
Speaker 1:Okay, so full lifecycle support is basically then, from building a grassroot new plant to get services and then possibly even evolving it and upgrading, revamping the plant.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what you often see is that everybody is interested in selling a license, of course, because that's the majority of what we're doing. But at the same time, we learn a lot from doing the services, by going into the plants, by doing plant inspections, talking with the clients.
Speaker 1:Okay, so replacing it, I think, is one from a client's perspective. The clients, yeah, okay. So replacing it, I think, is one from a client's perspective, makes sense. Yeah, but then going to Stamina Carbon, because then you get this extra process knowledge and you get extra support in this mostly upgraded equipment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, correct. I mean you can take your original drawings if they're still readable. You can go to an equipment manufacturer, you can have them manufactured, but you don't know if it's going to be built according to the philosophy of the vessel. Minor changes may have a big impact. In the case of urea, for instance, the corrosion is a big problem. So our knowledge in the welding processes helps a lot in the material selection. So that gives the client, uh, the assurance that the vessel that will be delivered will have a long lifetime ahead.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's a trade-off, that's a choice, uh, they have to make, okay so then I think also, if you would acquire this fire stomach carbon, then you would have this not just the equipment manufacturer, but also the inspection services to make sure that the equipment meets specifications exactly so.
Speaker 2:You have the, you have the vessel delivered that you always have. But you also know you have a process engineer on the background that looks at it for you. You have a mechanical engineer that follows up the drawings and everything. We have an inspection department that follows up the drawings and everything. We have an inspection department that follows up with the constructions of the vessels so they go into the shops actually inspect during the welding and intermediate steps.
Speaker 1:Okay, so they have hold and witness points to to check the quality yes, we.
Speaker 2:we put the whole points always in positions that we are sure that we inspect the things before they become unrepairable, and that helps a lot After that, also on the site. If the client wants to, we can help them with installation services, site services, inspections in a later stage.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that, I think, basically covers why do you want this? Yeah, then next question, of course, logical would be to know how do you do that, because there are many different types of I think mostly it would be high pressure equipment.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Many different type of licenses, many, several different processes, different types of equipment. Are there pieces of equipment that would stand out more?
Speaker 2:pieces of equipment that would stand out more. I think if you look, at least in the urea business, it's always the same type of equipment you encounter. So strippers are the most common equipments that need replacements. They have the harshest conditions in the process, so we know their lifetime is limited. So yeah, strippers for sure. That brings us to, in this case, then, the thermal strippers, because Stamicarbon has its CO2 stripping process, which works a little bit differently. We did a lot of research into making sure that we can also offer a good solution for thermal stripping plants. Another equipment that we see from time to time is the kettle type condensers, which also have their own failure mechanisms, where we think we have a good solution.
Speaker 1:What's a different failure mechanism compared to normal Stamikalmen equipment?
Speaker 2:What you see is, if it's constructed from BCO5 material, you always have corrosion in the top rows of the U-bundle and you also have some corrosion on the tube ends, and those things don't occur when you go to a duplex material.
Speaker 1:Okay. So you say, well, we've seen this before. Do you have an example?
Speaker 2:I'm assuming you have experience with a cat-type condenser, then I think I was involved in a project a few years ago. Let's say it, it happened right around when kovit hits oh, okay so that became a very interesting, uh interesting project additional dynamics additional dynamics.
Speaker 2:Indeed, a lot, of, a lot of late night meetings via teams, which was something everybody was still getting used to. So that was via Teams, which was something everybody was still getting used to. So that was fond memories of those meetings. In that case the contract was signed, the client was happy that he had a solution and it started with some process optimizations that we had in the contract. But once the project started running, there was this whole new wish list that popped up, like the project team formed at the client location and people started, hey, but we also had this problem at that time. Is that something you can look at? And I think in the end we ended up with a vessel with a lot more heat exchanging areas. We had to move a lot of the nozzles. The partition plates between the inlet and the outlet were completely modified. We switched materials.
Speaker 1:Okay, so then, I think the key question to ask is is the client happy? Because you made a lot of changes, because I think that this sounds like an extensive project to well, if you would minimize, this would be just replacing a, a condenser. Well, it's really.
Speaker 2:It became a, really an upgrade yeah, I think when you replace a vessel you always have two options. The easiest is to do a one-on-one replacement. Let me say that a one-on-one does not exist when you replace a vessel because there's always something that changes in the meantime, but you stick with the original design, uh. But this was a really nice example of where you actually helped the client, I think, with a lot of the problems they faced. Process wise, we do have the confirmation that the client is very happy. They they really see a difference on uh in operations before and after.
Speaker 1:In terms of consistency or what has changed? Yeah, the process efficiency.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, the process just runs a lot more efficient. Now, okay, when it comes to the mechanical aspects, of course, we'll have to wait a bit longer. The vessel is in operation now, I think, for a year or two, so we're still waiting for the first inspection we get to do, okay, but we're confident that it will.
Speaker 1:Hopeful outcome.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So it's thermal strippers, it's cathode type condensers. Are we talking about other equipment as well?
Speaker 2:We've also been involved in reactors from time to time. Reactors are a little bit say the easier vessels in the urea process, if you ask me from a mechanical point of view.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But they also have a much longer lifetime. So that leads to the situation that everything I explained before is even more applicable. Technologies have changed. Plants are often already very old by the time the reactors break down. So, yeah, that leads us also there with quite some possibilities.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there you can also provide this supportive service and possibly upgrade also Almost guaranteed upgrades for there. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:You can change the internals, the trays, for a more efficient configuration, but you can also increase the volume. But also and that's what you see a lot with a, with a reactor, it's not a vessel client really likes to change, so they often try to repair it as long as they can. Yeah, and also there we've seen some interesting projects.
Speaker 1:Yeah okay, and then, in terms of you can, if everything is on the table, you can change the design. If you can also change materials, is there any limitation? Could you take a competitor process and just change the material, or are there limitations in essence?
Speaker 2:I'd say there are for sure limitations, but they're based on the project. So you have to talk with the clients First. Limitations are their actual plans because, you can build a reactor.
Speaker 2:It's four times the size, but it will not necessarily be a cost-efficient change.
Speaker 2:You can build a skyscraper, Exactly. So it has to fit in their plans, it has to make sense, and that's again the process and the interaction between client process engineering and mechanical engineering. You can change the materials also to ensure a longer lifetime, which which is of course always an advantage, and in some cases we've seen situations as well where all the restrictions are in place and then maybe a reactor breaks down and there is no time to replace it and they go for repair. But of course, when you repair a vessel, you also there is no time to replace it and they go for a repair. But of course, when you repair a vessel, you also take away the need to replace it. So it might not be the economical decision to repair a vessel at one point, but if you have to choose between shutting down your plant for a year or uh yeah, it can be a bridging solution to to buy some more time to exactly, and that bridging solution can unfortunately for us also become permanent.
Speaker 2:more time to Exactly, and that bridging solution can, unfortunately for us, also become permanent from time to time.
Speaker 1:So, in terms of creating the bridge, how? Because, as you said in the beginning, these processes are more complex than, let's say, a thermocarbon equipment in a thermocarbon plant. Does this typically take longer to develop, or is the lead time of such projects more or less the same?
Speaker 2:I think the lead time for the project is not impacted. It's the dynamics in the acquisition phase that are different. I often see much more involvement from a process engineer. Often they go for a planned assessment, have a look at how it's running. It takes a bit longer to find the required documents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, also at the client side. It can take a lot of magnifying glasses to actually try to read the drawings, to read all paperwork. More than enough examples where some critical dimensions were not available and that means somebody has to calculate them and we have to make sure that it still functions.
Speaker 1:Okay, oh, interesting. And then, well, I think so far most of you have been talking about urea-related processes. What does the future hold? Where does this whole development of non-stimulant carbon plant services go to?
Speaker 2:I think historically, if you look at what we've done, urea has been our main focus in the last years, but as we're also evolving into different processes like nitric acid and the ammonia developments, of course we're also looking at the same equipments and the same services.
Speaker 1:In all, other areas so you can do ammonia converters or tertiary abatement reactors for nitric acid exactly oh, that's very interesting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, any last thoughts from your side before we close this podcast last words I hope to get more of these challenges in the future, because I can imagine, as an engineer, these are fun projects to work on exactly. They stay top on your mind even years after you've completed them. Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1:Thanks for explaining and I hope this to some extent contributes to more exciting projects. For your work, dj.
Speaker 2:For sure.
Speaker 1:Okay, thank you. Thank you, and also thank you to our listeners to Stamitox the fertilizer technology podcast.