Stamicarbon Equipment for non-Stamicarbon plants

Curious about how Stamicarbon can extend the life of your plant?

In the latest episode of #Stamitalks, Didier Croimans, a Senior Mechanical Engineer at Stamicarbon, explains how Stamicarbon offers its services and equipment to non-Stamicarbon plants.
 
Gain insights into the services and expertise #stamicarbon can provide, and how we offer full life cycle support.

Transcript

Fertilizer Technology

Speaker 1 0:10

All right , welcome everybody to a new episode of Stammy Talks . Today , not just today we're always talking about fertilizer technology , and today we're going to talk about Stammy Carbon equipment in non-Stammy Carbon plants . It's a big mouthful , but to guide us through this topic we have our senior mechanical engineer , dj Kroymans . Welcome , dj . Thank you , how are you doing ? Fine ?

Speaker 2 0:36

always . Thank you , Mark .

Speaker 1 0:36

Okay , well so , DJ , you joined Stamicarbon in 2018 .

Speaker 2 0:41

Yeah correct .

Speaker 1 0:43

What did you do before you became a senior mechanical engineer at Stamik Arbonne ?

Speaker 2 0:47

yes , so I joined Stamik Arbonne in 2018 . Before that , I worked for many years in a pressure vessel equipment manufacturer , basically doing the design of these vessels , discussing with clients about your specifications , finding out what they needed and transferring that into finding out what they needed and transferring that into actual design drawings . Okay , and in ?

Speaker 1 1:05

terms of your activity now in Stamina Carbon , just for normal Stamina Carbon equipment you are mostly involved as senior mechanical engineer in designing vessels .

Speaker 2 1:18

Yeah , so right now I work in the services department , the advanced department as we call it . I'm doing the mechanical projects of the equipment replacements and in those projects I uh , I'm basically the link between the client , the actual manufacturer , the process engineer within stomach carbon .

Speaker 1 1:36

So I built the specifications for the vessel , the data sheets , and then I follow up on the project when it's in production okay , so then you are indeed the right person to talk to , because then you're involved in many different parts of the process and acting as linking pin between them .

Speaker 2 1:52

Correct .

Speaker 1 1:52

Okay , all right . So then that's of course , all for stymie carbon equipment in stymie carbon plants , but then today's topic is about stymie carbon equipment in non-stymie carbon plants . So maybe to start off , why would you do that ? What's the difference .

Speaker 2 2:11

Well , working in stymie carbon plants is , of course , the easiest because we got everything worked out , we got standard data sheets available , we have the whole process figured out , so it's a little bit more the standard way of working . It actually gets interesting when you work into non-stammy carbon plants because then you , you don't have that whole design philosophy available , that whole background . So you actually have to talk a lot more with the clients . What do they want ? Figure out what their restrictions are . There's often a visit to the site figure out what their restrictions are . There's often a visit to the site involved to see space available . Because , again , with the stomach carbon plant , we got all the information in our databases and and I can just look in our system and find almost everything I need in those situations .

Speaker 1 2:57

It's much more interactive and much more challenging okay , and what do you mean exactly with design philosophy ?

Speaker 2 3:03

um well , we have a very strict set of design rules for equipment and when we follow that , we know exactly that the output will work . When you work with a competitor plant , you often have to look at the drawings , have an interaction with our own process engineers to figure out why is this here , why is this there ? What can I modify ? What does need to stay the same , both from a process and from a mechanical perspective ?

Speaker 1 3:28

Okay and you say I want to modify , or maybe can I modify , certain elements . Why would you want to do it ? Why not just go for a one-on-one replacement ?

Speaker 2 3:38

Yeah , I'd say when you replace a vessel , it's had quite the life and it's also had a long operational experience . So people , uh people know what they liked about the vessel . They also know what they didn't like about the vessel . So , like things that break down , okay , things that need repairs uh , corrosion problems in an unexpected spot , the plant probably works at a much higher capacity than it worked when it was originally built . You see that in all plants .

Speaker 1 4:09

And then making simple models , because the metheo gets thinner during its lifetime . Is that the reason why the capacity increases , or does it have other causes ?

Speaker 2 4:19

It can have multiple causes . A typical example you give , indeed , is when a heat exchanger , contradictionally , it's not what you'd expect , but it starts performing better the more it corrodes , because you get a much more efficient heat transfer . And then when you replace a heat exchanger in a plant , you have to take into account that if you replace it with the original one , the plant capacity might go down and I'm pretty sure no plant manager would love that . So those things you have to take into consideration for sure .

Speaker 1 4:47

Okay , so then why is to basically improve the plant ? But then still you could go to the original licensor and say can you give me new , whatever type of equipment you want to replace ?

Speaker 2 5:03

You could definitely do that . I think there are a few reasons why sometimes we are or often we are contacted . It could be that the original licensor is no longer available , and it's also something that I often hear when talking to clients that we are quite unique in the fact that we try to offer that total lifecycle support . So the presence of the Stamik Carbon Advanced team , I think , really is a help to clients that were always available for small and large questions .

Speaker 1 5:33

Okay , so full lifecycle support is basically then , from building a grassroot new plant to get services and then possibly even evolving it and upgrading , revamping the plant .

Speaker 2 5:45

Yeah , and what you often see is that everybody is interested in selling a license , of course , because that's the majority of what we're doing . But at the same time , we learn a lot from doing the services , by going into the plants , by doing plant inspections , talking with the clients .

Speaker 1 6:02

Okay , so replacing it , I think , is one from a client's perspective . The clients , yeah , okay . So replacing it , I think , is one from a client's perspective , makes sense . Yeah , but then going to Stamina Carbon , because then you get this extra process knowledge and you get extra support in this mostly upgraded equipment .

Speaker 2 6:18

Yeah , correct . I mean you can take your original drawings if they're still readable . You can go to an equipment manufacturer , you can have them manufactured , but you don't know if it's going to be built according to the philosophy of the vessel . Minor changes may have a big impact . In the case of urea , for instance , the corrosion is a big problem . So our knowledge in the welding processes helps a lot in the material selection . So that gives the client , uh , the assurance that the vessel that will be delivered will have a long lifetime ahead .

Speaker 1 6:50

Okay , and that's a trade-off , that's a choice , uh , they have to make , okay so then I think also , if you would acquire this fire stomach carbon , then you would have this not just the equipment manufacturer , but also the inspection services to make sure that the equipment meets specifications exactly so .

Speaker 2 7:10

You have the , you have the vessel delivered that you always have . But you also know you have a process engineer on the background that looks at it for you . You have a mechanical engineer that follows up the drawings and everything . We have an inspection department that follows up the drawings and everything . We have an inspection department that follows up with the constructions of the vessels so they go into the shops actually inspect during the welding and intermediate steps .

Speaker 1 7:31

Okay , so they have hold and witness points to to check the quality yes , we .

Speaker 2 7:36

we put the whole points always in positions that we are sure that we inspect the things before they become unrepairable , and that helps a lot After that , also on the site . If the client wants to , we can help them with installation services , site services , inspections in a later stage .

Speaker 1 7:54

Okay , so that , I think , basically covers why do you want this ? Yeah , then next question , of course , logical would be to know how do you do that , because there are many different types of I think mostly it would be high pressure equipment .

Speaker 2 8:08

Yeah .

Speaker 1 8:09

Many different type of licenses , many , several different processes , different types of equipment . Are there pieces of equipment that would stand out more ?

Speaker 2 8:21

pieces of equipment that would stand out more . I think if you look , at least in the urea business , it's always the same type of equipment you encounter . So strippers are the most common equipments that need replacements . They have the harshest conditions in the process , so we know their lifetime is limited . So yeah , strippers for sure . That brings us to , in this case , then , the thermal strippers , because Stamicarbon has its CO2 stripping process , which works a little bit differently . We did a lot of research into making sure that we can also offer a good solution for thermal stripping plants . Another equipment that we see from time to time is the kettle type condensers , which also have their own failure mechanisms , where we think we have a good solution .

Speaker 1 9:12

What's a different failure mechanism compared to normal Stamikalmen equipment ?

Speaker 2 9:16

What you see is , if it's constructed from BCO5 material , you always have corrosion in the top rows of the U-bundle and you also have some corrosion on the tube ends , and those things don't occur when you go to a duplex material .

Speaker 1 9:33

Okay . So you say , well , we've seen this before . Do you have an example ?

Speaker 2 9:38

I'm assuming you have experience with a cat-type condenser , then I think I was involved in a project a few years ago . Let's say it , it happened right around when kovit hits oh , okay so that became a very interesting , uh interesting project additional dynamics additional dynamics .

Speaker 2 9:55

Indeed , a lot , of , a lot of late night meetings via teams , which was something everybody was still getting used to . So that was via Teams , which was something everybody was still getting used to . So that was fond memories of those meetings . In that case the contract was signed , the client was happy that he had a solution and it started with some process optimizations that we had in the contract . But once the project started running , there was this whole new wish list that popped up , like the project team formed at the client location and people started , hey , but we also had this problem at that time . Is that something you can look at ? And I think in the end we ended up with a vessel with a lot more heat exchanging areas . We had to move a lot of the nozzles . The partition plates between the inlet and the outlet were completely modified . We switched materials .

Speaker 1 10:50

Okay , so then , I think the key question to ask is is the client happy ? Because you made a lot of changes , because I think that this sounds like an extensive project to well , if you would minimize , this would be just replacing a , a condenser . Well , it's really .

Speaker 2 11:08

It became a , really an upgrade yeah , I think when you replace a vessel you always have two options . The easiest is to do a one-on-one replacement . Let me say that a one-on-one does not exist when you replace a vessel because there's always something that changes in the meantime , but you stick with the original design , uh . But this was a really nice example of where you actually helped the client , I think , with a lot of the problems they faced .

Mechanical Engineering in Chemical Plants

Speaker 2 11:33

Process wise , we do have the confirmation that the client is very happy . They they really see a difference on uh in operations before and after .

Speaker 1 11:41

In terms of consistency or what has changed ? Yeah , the process efficiency .

Speaker 2 11:47

So , yeah , the process just runs a lot more efficient . Now , okay , when it comes to the mechanical aspects , of course , we'll have to wait a bit longer . The vessel is in operation now , I think , for a year or two , so we're still waiting for the first inspection we get to do , okay , but we're confident that it will .

Speaker 1 12:07

Hopeful outcome .

Speaker 2 12:08

Okay .

Speaker 1 12:09

So it's thermal strippers , it's cathode type condensers . Are we talking about other equipment as well ?

Speaker 2 12:18

We've also been involved in reactors from time to time . Reactors are a little bit say the easier vessels in the urea process , if you ask me from a mechanical point of view .

Speaker 1 12:31

Yeah .

Speaker 2 12:32

But they also have a much longer lifetime . So that leads to the situation that everything I explained before is even more applicable . Technologies have changed . Plants are often already very old by the time the reactors break down . So , yeah , that leads us also there with quite some possibilities .

Speaker 1 12:52

Okay , so there you can also provide this supportive service and possibly upgrade also Almost guaranteed upgrades for there . Yes , exactly .

Speaker 2 13:02

You can change the internals , the trays , for a more efficient configuration , but you can also increase the volume . But also and that's what you see a lot with a , with a reactor , it's not a vessel client really likes to change , so they often try to repair it as long as they can . Yeah , and also there we've seen some interesting projects .

Speaker 1 13:22

Yeah okay , and then , in terms of you can , if everything is on the table , you can change the design . If you can also change materials , is there any limitation ? Could you take a competitor process and just change the material , or are there limitations in essence ?

Speaker 2 13:45

I'd say there are for sure limitations , but they're based on the project . So you have to talk with the clients First . Limitations are their actual plans because , you can build a reactor .

Speaker 2 13:56

It's four times the size , but it will not necessarily be a cost-efficient change .

Speaker 2 14:02

You can build a skyscraper , Exactly . So it has to fit in their plans , it has to make sense , and that's again the process and the interaction between client process engineering and mechanical engineering . You can change the materials also to ensure a longer lifetime , which which is of course always an advantage , and in some cases we've seen situations as well where all the restrictions are in place and then maybe a reactor breaks down and there is no time to replace it and they go for repair . But of course , when you repair a vessel , you also there is no time to replace it and they go for a repair . But of course , when you repair a vessel , you also take away the need to replace it . So it might not be the economical decision to repair a vessel at one point , but if you have to choose between shutting down your plant for a year or uh yeah , it can be a bridging solution to to buy some more time to exactly , and that bridging solution can unfortunately for us also become permanent .

Speaker 2 14:49

more time to Exactly , and that bridging solution can , unfortunately for us , also become permanent from time to time .

Speaker 1 14:54

So , in terms of creating the bridge , how ? Because , as you said in the beginning , these processes are more complex than , let's say , a thermocarbon equipment in a thermocarbon plant . Does this typically take longer to develop , or is the lead time of such projects more or less the same ?

Speaker 2 15:13

I think the lead time for the project is not impacted . It's the dynamics in the acquisition phase that are different . I often see much more involvement from a process engineer . Often they go for a planned assessment , have a look at how it's running . It takes a bit longer to find the required documents .

Speaker 2 15:34

Yeah , of course , also at the client side . It can take a lot of magnifying glasses to actually try to read the drawings , to read all paperwork . More than enough examples where some critical dimensions were not available and that means somebody has to calculate them and we have to make sure that it still functions .

Speaker 1 15:52

Okay , oh , interesting . And then , well , I think so far most of you have been talking about urea-related processes . What does the future hold ? Where does this whole development of non-stimulant carbon plant services go to ?

Speaker 2 16:08

I think historically , if you look at what we've done , urea has been our main focus in the last years , but as we're also evolving into different processes like nitric acid and the ammonia developments , of course we're also looking at the same equipments and the same services .

Speaker 1 16:26

In all , other areas so you can do ammonia converters or tertiary abatement reactors for nitric acid exactly oh , that's very interesting .

Speaker 2 16:35

Yeah , any last thoughts from your side before we close this podcast last words I hope to get more of these challenges in the future , because I can imagine , as an engineer , these are fun projects to work on exactly . They stay top on your mind even years after you've completed them . Yeah , I can imagine .

Speaker 1 16:57

Thanks for explaining and I hope this to some extent contributes to more exciting projects . For your work , dj .

Speaker 2 17:06

For sure .

Speaker 1 17:07

Okay , thank you . Thank you , and also thank you to our listeners to Stamitox the fertilizer technology podcast .