Stamitalks Podcast
We at Stamicarbon are pioneers in the licensing and design of fertilizer technology with more than 77 years of experience.
Here we share the latest technology insights into urea, green ammonia, fertilizer sustainability, and digital trends for fertilizer plants, and we also discuss the role the fertilizer industry can play in solving global challenges.
Happy to share our knowledge with you.
Stamitalks Podcast
Stamicarbon Services
Join us for the last episode of the season, where our Vice President of Services gives insights into the added value of Stamicarbon for customers worldwide.
Welcome to another episode of Stamy Talks where we talk about fertilizer technology. Uh and today we have a uh special Stamy Carbon guest, Henry Smolenais. Welcome Henry. Good morning. Yes, well, well, thank you for for for joining us. Uh, you're vice president of of services, um, being Stamy Carbon for longer than I am. So, Kate, can you tell a bit about your your background? My background.
SPEAKER_01:Um I started with DSM as a process engineer. Um, did that for several years, uh a little bit of research, but I'm not a real research guy. Uh, then moved to the plants, process engineer, senior process engineer, um, did all kinds of things, uh, producing ethylene and propylene on a big plant. Um an aftercracker compared to a urea plant, it's it's huge, so it's uh urea is much smaller but more integrated and much more complicated with noops and things like that. So that makes it very interesting. And uh and um and and from there on I moved on to uh uh management positions uh and I did all kinds of things outside like project management, safety, IC9001, uh technology, uh maintenance. Uh several years. Uh then I got a little bit bored here outside in the Netherlands, and I moved to Germany for another three years producing polyethylene, polypropylene from the ethylene and and propylene produced. That was also uh very, very interesting. New people, new technologies, new environment, and new challenges. Uh and at a certain moment you need to decide either to move to Germany or to come back. My daughters were at an age that I knew that I didn't have to ask them to move to another place, so they uh so it means coming back, and right at that sweet spot, uh uh Stemmy Carbon made a call and said, uh, do you want a cup of coffee? And let's have a talk. And and that's about that that's about 2012 where we had those conversations. And like I always say, I'm still drinking coffee at Stemmy Carbon, so uh it all worked out.
SPEAKER_00:Uh okay, and then you started as a project manager, I think.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it is Stemmicarbon at that moment was about 70 people and when I joined. Uh some of the some of the old group already said, well, we're 70, we're way too big, this is never gonna happen. Uh now we are 250, 250. Still still moving on, still doing different things. So that's uh never a dull day. So that's it's uh that's that's great. Um started with project management. There was not a route there were some people doing project management, but not a department as such. Uh so my my my first goal was to set up the target and and build what was needed. And at that moment we were doing a lot of process design packages and things like that, but then it moved on to equipment supply. When you do equipment supply, you do need to do spares, and from spares you go to the next one. So it's and for for each type of activity you need a different type of project manager. So so how to organize that and and how to to to wheel that in into procedures and uh and and workflows within the company, and that uh that was that was very interesting. And that we did until 2018-19. Uh in parallel, I did a lot of projects myself, so that means visiting clients all over the world and and doing projects with them. So with my experience, I think I know what uh somebody at site needs because I was one of them for 20 years. Yeah. With the projects I did, I I've seen how your rear plant works and what those clients need, and I can can bring those both worlds together and help my own people to service the client uh in the best possible way. And also try to define what products they need and whatnot, and and and and and that way set the future for the department and for the clients.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so then you you became vice president services, which incorporates, of course, some project management, but then you're also responsible for client visit, customer uh relations, I think spare parts.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we have our own sales, we have uh we have our own sales, we have our own operations. Um I also run the inspections department, but that one works for the whole STEMic carbon. Um but with with the sales and the operations and with uh with inspections, you you do you you service all the running plans. So when somebody has a need, he contacts the sales, they set up a a scope to be to be delivered, um or or help to be be given, and then our operations people will take over and then they will execute all this.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So VP services uh and you say execute all this. Can you give some flavor of what all is what what are the type of services and products that you that you offer?
SPEAKER_01:No, the yeah, no products is is is very broad. It can go from from spare part of thousand euros, but if we deliver this the this spare part too late, then uh then you also have the uh the uh uh you cannot close the plan, and also you have big issues. So that is that is uh um that's also a pr a problem. So it goes from spare parts to to HP equipment to digital to support uh support uh via phone, support outside, and help you to optimize your plant. Um think about it, but and and and and we can either deliver it, manage it, or find a way to do it, or we use it as a uh input for future innovation and and come back after a couple of years.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so but then what's the what's the uh you're very busy men are you are here? So uh there are people wanting your your service. Yeah, um so in in terms of um how does a client relation work because you've seen that was Tommy Carbon has grown significantly, but also uh your department has has become a lot bigger, yeah, yeah, and there's a very clearly a need as you uh are uh so I think clients approach you just go Andrew, hey Andre, I have an issue, but I can can you say how is because the the business is so diverse, as you say it's a a thousand euro spare part versus a multi-million dollar piece of equipment, yeah, yeah, and everything in between. Yeah, so my guess would be is that the the demand for clients is really really diverse. Does somebody come in with a small spare part and then well maybe forever just buy spare parts and maybe in 20 years buys a piece of equipment, or is it the other way around? Or how does how does the interaction with clients work? No, there are there are different ways.
SPEAKER_01:Uh it could it can be clients who just need a replacement of something else, then it's uh uh give me the same again. And that's a that's a very simple short transaction. Uh it could be that still the that takes a year before you have to produce it, but that's something else. But the but but the our our salespeople they call themselves sales and solutions managers. Okay. So you come for something, you want something, and then the the intention is that our people know you and then say, but if you want this, then you audit also should think about this, this and this, because then with a minor extra investment, you have these huge opportunities. Like when you replace a piece of equipment, that's an ideal moment to start talking to Evolve to uh have a revamp. Because it because then when you have the equipment replaced, no, you maybe you change the equipment a little bit uh to have more capacity or or change something else or or put a small ad on. So you already have half of the investment done but just because you need to replace the equipment and then uh you can add a little bit and then you can start producing more if you have the capacity, if you want to, if you have the money. If you don't have and it doesn't fit in your strategy as a client, then it's just a one-on-one replacement. So that's all possible, but but that discussion should take place so that uh the awareness uh is there.
SPEAKER_00:Is there a because I've I've been with some comic for quite some time as well, and I think I've almost never heard of a one-to-one replacement. I think there's almost always something extra added. Is that also your perception?
SPEAKER_01:No, that is our added value. Um I mean uh when you buy a new car, you don't want to bar uh buy the car from ten years ago uh because it was uh so nice the last ten years. You want the newest technology with uh with uh with cruise control, with automatic gears, and uh and and and and with with the with the with the uh perfect materials we have, with the design possibilities we have, with all the experience that we have done the last 10, 20, 30 years on the equipment, we are able to to upgrade your product with a with a minor extra uh and and then uh uh you can have another uh 20 years of fun with the equipment.
SPEAKER_00:You replace the engine, but you immediately upgrade the engine that still works in the old car.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it was if you have uh a one-on-one replacement, I'm very willing to do that, but but you you you could also go to somebody else and and do that.
SPEAKER_00:Uh yeah, it's not the main act the main added value of Stamikawan.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I mean, I mean when we talk about services, I'm not gonna deliver a pump. Uh you can buy the pump anywhere. So uh our our Stamikoin people, they have brains uh and procedures and knowledge, and that needs to be transferred into the product we have. Uh so that is uh that is uh that is where I see our added value.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. And that goes I think for for a like a big piece of equipment, I think that's I think well at least for me that's more obvious. But at the same time, you say, oh I can buy a a a pump anywhere, but I can also buy a small spare part anywhere. So how does how did the the range of business uh became what it is now?
SPEAKER_01:Um it's the for the for the equipment and and and and things, it's it's mainly the propriety uh material which is uh which links us to the client. Okay. So that is uh uh we we know what is needed. We know how this material works. We know the design, we need we know how to test it and how to implement it. Uh so that is that is the challenging part on the I mean it's not just uh uh putting in a sufferx liner and then uh and then thinking uh this will work. Uh this has this has to be done in a certain way with certain temperatures, uh things you should not do uh for the corrosion resistance of the material.
SPEAKER_00:So it's need to experience know-how and also the yeah, yeah. Okay. And I can imagine I think last last year um slightly twitching switching topics here. So I think it's also about how to um part of the the solutions could be in terms of the in the hardware and the equipment of the plant, but I can also think that there's uh learnings in terms of how to operate the plant. So that you would talk about um trainings, e-learnings, um uh digital tools. Digital tools. Yeah, can you elaborate on that? How how how does that part of the business work? Because I think that's I think the the dynamic between the two, I think also is very interesting. So the dynamic between no between the sort of the the the yeah, let's say the computer term with the hardware and the software, right? So the equipment and the and the and the operators, yeah. Uh and I think then the digital is sort of the um the software. If you look at the energy of computers, you've got hardware, software and the user.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Um and all need to work together to get the the the maximum output. Um I think for your EA plant it's it's similar. If you don't have the right equipment, you cannot get uh a good efficient efficient plant. At the same time, you need skilled operators and you need to have the right software, uh literally software.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. At least there's the software will help you too and help your people to do the right things. Uh because like I said in the beginning, the the the plan is relatively complex in the sense of in loops. So if you change something, sometimes you need to wait some long time before you see the effect of the change you made, and that is that is important. And if you look at those digital tools, they will they will digital twin of the plant. You can play with the numbers and see what happens and and the and things like that. Um the the uh and that works that works.
SPEAKER_00:What what types of tools are you referring to?
SPEAKER_01:Uh uh that's uh that's uh uh an operational model of the plant. Okay. So it it is linked to plant data. So uh plant data comes to the model, it calculates the settings. So you get a lot more data than you what you actually can measure in the plant.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So the compositions of flows and temperatures and uh pressures and things like that. You can you can calculate uh but not measure in the plant. And once you know and you have this extra information, you better you're you're more better able to steer the plant. Okay. And for that, and then when you know what you're doing, then you can push the plant in the right direction. So this is the the process, monitor, product that you're talking about. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And and and linking that to uh equipment, that is also what something we are doing. Um because because now you have all the information like temperatures and flows, you can use the temperatures or an or even a temperature profile on the stripper tube and try to predict the lifetime of uh of the the the stripper. So that is so that is next level what we're going to do. So it's predictive maintenance. Yeah, yeah. But again, something not something not you you cannot measure during the run, but you can calculate and then use this data to fork for forecasting.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so so it's really optimizing performance but also optimizing your investment.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Because you in in theory you could you could replace it a week before it breaks.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you could that yeah, that that that is very difficult because it's uh it's uh all pressure related and things like that. So that's not the clear spot where you but but you but you can run into the fat of a plant and then use that a little bit before you do the uh so it's not ten minutes before, but uh you must leave some some some risk indication of well now it's really time to to do something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that's really what's happening. And the other thing what we are doing on on uh on digital is uh is of course the ODS. They uh they also know in emergency situations uh how to run the plant. And and once once the plant is running smooth, uh with SDPM or capable people, then they are they are not able to test and and feel the all the problems which could happen in the plant, and once it really happens, they don't know how to respond anymore because it the plant was running so well for so long. Uh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So the so the car analogy would be that if you have, I don't know, adaptive cruise control and the car breaks for you, you don't know how to brake anymore. Yeah. So you have to train them how to brake.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, or when to start braking and uh to be to be safe and well what will happen to to to to take the analogy analogy, yeah. When you're when your cruise control doesn't work anymore, your lane control doesn't work anymore, and your adaptive doesn't work anymore, you drive yourself. You're very concentrated on trying to stay in between the lines, but you don't watch the car in front of you anymore. So suddenly he comes and you put on the brakes and there's distance. So when there's a distance you lose production, instable. Um etc, etc.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. But then where do you see this this going? What's the future?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um that is uh thirty years ago. I saw a picture of a guy and a dog walking around a plant, and then the professor said the dog is there to keep the guy out of the plant. Okay. So so the the real thing is at a certain moment the plant will run itself. That is uh and people are needed where when something breaks down.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So only that that's that's um you can talk about ODS, you can talk about SDPM, artificial intelligence is the is the next level. Uh there is uh there is so much data available, and when you can make the right models with those data, with this data, then you are able to forecast how the plan is running. So I think that is that is uh when you when you say when you say uh when we when we talk about SDPM digital process monitor? The process monitor, then then I already said to the guys, my my my my my dream is what will happen is we will have a room with a computer in with a red light. And only when the red light blinks you're allowed to go in and help the client with the problem. Because all the other problems should be self-learning and and self-explanatory to the client. And uh Okay.
SPEAKER_00:But you mean a room in stemic office or something? A room within stemicarbon office.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. I I mean when you let's say uh when you have ten, twenty, fifty plants uh on uh with a with a process monitor, uh I mean every day something happens. I'm not gonna have fifty process engineers uh looking at the computer and waiting for problems. Uh and when those problems come, they they are repetitive. Because uh Plant Owner One has it and plant owner 49 has it the day after. So why do we need to investigate again? Take use the data you have, use the information you have, and the computer can do a lot. So maybe not tomorrow, but maybe the day after, or maybe in six months. But at a certain moment, the client should say uh the computer should say, Dear client, number 49, I see a problem coming up. Uh please uh please adjust this way or that way, and then you can prevent it. Or shut down or whatever is needed.
SPEAKER_00:So it's uh basically it's a remote secondary control room that you are That is uh support uh room. Yeah, a support room, yeah. Yeah, and even of course control still happens in in in local on-site.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because somebody needs to be there to to turn some knobs and some buttons um so that that is local, but uh but on a distance, it's like the helpline. Um that's the way it works.
SPEAKER_00:So that's but uh so of course uh if you predict the future, you know you're going to be wrong, especially if you're going to talk about timelines. Uh what in your mind is this 10 years away, 20 years away, is it 2050 or uh w uh how because things can move fast, but at the same time it takes a long time, especially with safety in mind for for plants where as ammonia is involved.
SPEAKER_01:Like I said, I heard the comment 30 years ago. Yeah. So it might take another 30 years, but I also see that the artificial intelligence and data management uh tools are exploding at the moment. So but on the other hand, our our business is relatively conservative, so I don't see it happening um um in in in this decade. Uh okay. Maybe something after, but uh the but there will be more tools. I mean people some clients are still talking about uh data safety. Yeah, where's my data? Data in the cloud, and uh and and who can see it, who can run it, and also therefore we are doing this ISO certification to show that we are a safe environment for for the data. 37,000 and one, I think. Yeah, so that is uh there's all these things are happening and uh and and that's slowly moving. So it's not exploding yet, but I don't know. But will there be a tipping point? Because I can imagine if this is I think the artificial intelligence is uh tipping point. Yeah. So it could really accelerate the things uh okay.
SPEAKER_00:But then I think one other of course uh any chemical plant will be um will have similar risks, but I can imagine that depending on your feedstock, um the risk profile changes a bit. So is stomach carbon offering this only for your epic because this is uh very logical to do because it's very complex. But we do have other technologies, uh green ammonia and nitric acid, uh some specialties. Do you provide all of this for uh other technologies as well?
SPEAKER_01:That will follow. That's a logical that's a logical thing. If you have have done the trick once and know how it works, then you can uh then also can transfer it to other technologies.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, but I can imagine that if you do this for a very complex thing, that it might be so then on one hand it's easier to do it on a simple thing, like if I would you uh if I make a stupid example, you could make a process monitor for boarding an airkin water. Uh what's the temperature of the water and what's the pressure and then you could you could manage that process as well. Um but I think then increasing the complexity will be more difficult than decreasing the complexity. So once you've got it done for the urea synthesis, the rest is easy, relatively easy at least. Yeah. Uh but you could argue, well, let's start with boarding an egg and then work away up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, but the the uh you could do that at all. And and for that you don't need stemic carbon uh, so that's why we don't start there, of course, for proving the tools via these things, yes. But if you look at the really applications and that's what our clients are looking for, then it needs to be more high-end uh for from the for them to really help them in the in in in things they need.
SPEAKER_00:Um okay. So really the added value of stomach carbon is in is in the complex world, yes, in in in adding solution thinking with the client.
SPEAKER_01:Well, because if you look at standard things, why should I why should I focus on standard things? Because there's there's a lot of competition and everybody can do that. No. With with some basic knowledge. Um so so uh we are we are the urea masters, uh that is that is our territory. We have a lot of knowledge, we have a lot of experience, many years uh we uh on equipment, on on design, on many things. So that is that is uh where we can help uh our our our clients with.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So and and then uh helping clients is the because your your backdrop is a uh a world map with uh fertile land in the background. Are there different needs in different regions? I can imagine that challenges will be different depending on the partly on regulation but also on culture.
SPEAKER_01:It's uh it's uh culture is a thing, uh region, uh philosophy, how to run the plant, uh money, availability. So let's say somebody has has uh has plenty of money and he wants to have the the best in class plant and uh high reliable he buys equipment which lasts for 20 years, uh 30 years. Uh others are uh maybe more short term, they they look five years ahead and and and and therefore uh are sometimes buying equipment on the local market or or or not so interested to run 100 or 105%, 90 is good enough. And so it's it's um the somebody else wants but doesn't have the the the the money or there are several things.
SPEAKER_00:So how how do you manage those those regions? Because I think if you have one sales or I know you have more source managers, but if you have uh for each person covering all uh geographies, I think that's really it's more difficult to understand the client in depth. So I'm assuming that you have sort of a more regional approach.
SPEAKER_01:Correct. So we have uh about six regions, uh uh logical regions when you when you look at the map, that's that's one thing. But even within those regions you see differences. Okay. So um and that's also the reason why we uh we why we said to each other, so uh serving the world from the STEM Carbon office in Sitter doesn't work. Uh sometimes you can sell something via email, that's uh that's no issue, but uh but for other clients you need to be local. You need to visit them and then um get your feet in the mud and understand clients' issues. Yeah, but also to connect with them and uh I mean I mean now we have food cars in India, for example, so that means the client can call him during office hours while how much is the time difference with India? Six hours or something, we would have two overlapping hours uh for for for doing business and helping each other. Now yeah. And then uh our guys want to talk about football, the client wants to talk about cricket, uh, and then and then it's uh already a mismatch, and then uh and then I even don't don't touch on on religion or other things what they want to do, uh and then uh and then then it's better to have somebody local who can visit the client and spend some time with the person and then say, uh with this I cannot help you, but with this and this and this I can help you. We could do it that way, and uh and this is what we want, this is demicarbon, this is services we want to grow, we want to do this, we want to do that. How do you look at it? Giving have some tips from me, I have some tips for you, and then that's okay. That's where the connection comes.
SPEAKER_00:So really build a a longer-term relationship and then it should be of course mutual or beneficial.
SPEAKER_01:I mean we are there to stay. I would do the same thing in in in Indonesia, it's also very difficult. Uh you need to yeah, you need to shake hands with each other and have a relationship. How do you do that from the office and from via the phone? That doesn't work. Teams is nice, but it also doesn't work. So you need to be need to be local. So that's what we try to be. Yeah. And then um and then like I said, the relationship should be long term. Uh in general, plants are getting older. Uh getting older means they need more service. That's great for our department, uh, and then we need to find them where are they and then and um and by the way, we touched on on on on urea plants, but but when I talk about urea plants, I also talk about Toyo and Stampuyetti uh plants and uh so it's not only the STEMic carbon plants, but uh but uh but uh in in general that what we do for urea for for STEMic carbon technology plants, we can also do for for the others.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so you can in principle you can upgrade to get back to the car in energy. Yeah, you're you're not s stuck to one car, not the one brand, but you can replace the engine in any car.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. We did already for two-year plants in China, we did uh for some plans in the US. Um so we already did that. So it's it's it's uh yeah, of course it's challenging and then very nice and interesting and great, uh, but it's not a problem.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:And then the and the same I want to do for for OTS, for for for for the the the the simulator, for for uh process monitor, all these things we can do the same thing because it's and basis is the same. Okay, yeah, because the chemical process is the same principle. It's a little bit different flow, but uh then we change the model a little bit and then uh we we we connect again and do it.
SPEAKER_00:Well, that's very interesting. So maybe to to to close off, but I see that we are uh sort of uh getting towards the end of this this podcast. Do you have any advice or requests? Because we we've this is the the last podcast of this this season, so uh we've um I have built quite some some some followers already. Do you have any last statement that you want to share?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm not so not so much a statement guy. I I I I try to look at the market and what people need, and uh and and they see us as a licensor. Uh but my department is services, which is 90 degrees, 180 degrees of uh versus licensing. Um I mean uh we are setting up 24-7 services, for example. Okay. Name another licensor which has 24-7 services. But if you are somewhere in the world and you have a problem on a Saturday or on a Sunday and you need to call somebody, the f soon there will be a phone number on the website uh which you can call and somebody will pick up the phone and will help you and guide you through your problems. So that is that is what we want to do, just next level, and and that way we want to keep on doing and applying uh the things where we are good at. Uh not for our the f the fun for us is to develop the things and do the things, but the real How do you call it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, the proof of the pies in the eating to really help a client to if if there's an emergency that we we are side by side and help them solve solve problems.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. My statement, if I need to make a statement, is I tell the clients I don't like clients, I like returning clients. Because then I did something good, I delivered something what they need, and then uh and that's what I want. Because it's it's it's yeah when you look at licensing, it's it's it's more a one-off. You do the design, you give the equipment, and you and you go. And then we come and then we help the client with all the issues they have, and that can take for years to come. So if we want to we want to be there for those 20, 30, 40 years that the plan is running.
SPEAKER_00:Indeed, focusing uh on long on long relationship. Yeah, yeah. I think that's that's a great bridge to uh to close off this this podcast because I think the same thing is true for this podcast series. This is the first year we've we've been we've been doing this. Um so this is the last podcast of the first series. Okay so we'll take a take a break, but for sure we'll uh we'll be back with a second season. Um so we don't have an exact date, but we'll uh take a few months, uh, a few months off. And um to all our listeners, uh please uh watch our social media where we for sure will announce when we will be uh relive again. Uh and until that time, I would really like to thank you on behalf of the whole Stamy Carbon team that has uh developed these this podcast. Uh has been a great experience for us, and uh we uh hope you you like it, and by the statistics we we see that you do. Um so thank you for listening, tuning in, and um hope to hear and uh see you next time. Thank you. Thank you.